Tokio psuedo-RFC: eliminate `io::Error`

[canndrew]

I think useful functionality can be to create enum aliases with limited variants. Something like:

Interesting. I also like the idea of being able define nested enums. Possible syntax:

enum Foo {
    Bar,
    Wow,
    enum Smeg {
        Flim,
        Flam,
    },
}

let x: Foo::Smeg = Foo::Smeg::Flam;
let y: Foo = x;

But it wouldn’t be one of the two or three variants of some nice small error type, it’d be buried down in a platform-specific variant in the third level of some huge error hierarchy at least going by the structure of the open errors above.

I don’t know why you’d assume such a poor implementation of this idea. The third level of OpenFileError is NotFoundError which distinguishes between cases like path/to/file not being openable because to isn’t a directory or because the whole file name was too long. I find it hard to imagine cases where people would actually care about this distinction. Either way you’re clearly just dealing with an incorrect file name.

I find it easy to imagine scenarios where people want to recovery from UDP “destination unreachable” errors though. Like, whenever you’re using a UDP socket to talk to more than one host but you don’t want to crash if one of the hosts is down. That seems like a very typical use case for UDP actually.

The idea is to divide and organize errors based on how people are likely to want to respond to them. UdpSocket::recv_from errors which don’t mean your socket has become unusable - and after which you can just call recv_from again to keep receiving packets - seem like a top-level category to me.

Your failure mode here is not going to be file descriptor exhaustion, it’s going to be a failure to create 1,000,000 concurrent threads.

I was under the impression that tokio could handle 1,000,000 concurrent tasks.

Systems are instead designed to not run into hard resource limits in the first place, and if you do it’s either because the limit is below what’s required to run the thing and the user needs to raise it, or there’s a deeper logic bug in the program.

You can’t think of examples of where programs might want to use all the resources available? I’m not saying users shouldn’t raise those limits, but maybe sometimes it’s best for the program to slow down and notify the user rather than just crashing.

What is unique here about Rust’s hash maps in comparison to Python’s or Javascript’s? I’m not aware of any language that has a hashmap which returns an IO error on lookup.

No, but they return something useless, type-wise. To quote myself:

If HashMap::get returned Result<&T, io::Error> do you think people would reliably handle the case where an entry is missing? Because I think lots of people would either (a) completely neglect this edge case in their code and end up throwing io::Errors up the stack instead of doing whatever they should have done …

Doesn’t this sound a lot like Python? Where you’re not forced to consider the case where an entry is missing and instead you just end up throwing a KeyError up the stack?

Each iteration here also has nothing to do with the specific form of the error type.

Yes, the second one does. The form of the error guides people in how to handle it. That’s kinda my whole point.

[canndrew]

@Tom-Phinney, @birkenfeld, @danburkert

I originally started writing a crate which wraps tokio's types and changes the error types of all the methods. I figured it was worth trying to get this into tokio itself though, otherwise I might end up being the sole user and maintainer of it, it wouldn’t get sufficient feedback, it wouldn’t be able to influence other libraries to clean up their error handling, there would be compatibility speed bumps with vanilla tokio, etc.

In the likely event that this pseudo-RFC doesn’t end up going anywhere I’ll probably go back to working on that crate, or at least adding stuff to it as I need it.

[sfackler]

Doesn’t this sound a lot like Python? Where you’re not forced to consider the case where an entry is missing and instead you just end up throwing a KeyError up the stack?

I don’t understand what io::Error has to do with the similarities between Python’s dict and Rust’s HashMap - they’re already quite similar. x[i] throws an exception/panics if the key is not present, and x.get(i) returns None if the key is not present.

[vitalyd]

I don’t understand what io::Error has to do with the similarities between Python’s dict and Rust’s HashMap - they’re already quite similar. x[i] throws an exception/panics if the key is not present, and x.get(i) returns None if the key is not present.

I think the Python comparisons are really not needed here - I think the gist of the issue @canndrew describes is fairly well understood, and the Sender example in the OP is a nice distilled example of what he’s after. The issue, of course, is that the sender truly has only two** modes of failure and it can guarantee that because it owns all the code - there’s no OS/platform to worry about failing in umpteen different ways. So the surface areas are very different.

** - if we had fallible allocators, OOM would perhaps be a third. Fallible allocations is a separate can of worms, and would play a role when discussing a system running at/close to the limits.

[CAD97]

With again very deliberately bad names, another semi proposal that takes a middle ground:

pub enum IoError<Recoverable: Into<io::Error>> {
    LikelyRecoverable(Recoverable),
    LikelyFatal(io::Error),
}

I agree with the core motivation of the proposal: provide an error type that more easily lends itself to handling likely recoverable errors.

The way I see it, there are three classes of IO errors. 1) Errors that are an expected case, and can be handled where (or close to where) they’re raised. 2) Errors that signal unrecoverable failure, and should bubble up to the task organizer level, which cancels the task, logs it, and moves on to the next one. 3) Errors that signify an environment/expectation mismatch. In this case, you’re best off just stopping as soon as possible, because you’re not getting any work done as is.

This proposal is about allowing the programmer to discover these classes through the design of the IO functions rather than by knowing (or guessing) what io::Errors they might have enough information to handle.

[josh]

Again, you’re not going to be able to guess on behalf of the application which errors it wants to recover from, which it wants to bubble up, and which it wants to abort over. Different applications have different requirements.

As an example: if you’re writing a CLI application and opening a file specified on the command line, you’ll want to treat all errors as fatal, report it to the user along with the corresponding filename, and exit. If you’re a GUI application providing a file chooser, you might report errors to the user but keep the application running so they can open another file (or keep working with the file they’re working with). If you’re opening a configuration file, you’ll ignore ENOENT and treat it as the absence of a configuration file, but report any other error to the user. If you’re an application like sftp or rsync, you should report any errno code back to the user over the wire, and keep going. If you’re an application like find or cp -a, you’ll want to print errors, keep going, and emit an appropriate error code later. If you’re a long-running daemon, you might want to abort the current request but recover for subsequent requests. If you’re a one-off tool to connect to a service you might want to fail on a connection failure, but if you’re a long-running sync daemon you could log the error and keep trying. If you’re a tool like dd_rescue, you might ignore all kinds of mysterious hardware failure error codes and keep trying to read data off a device.

Just report an error the user can easily introspect, and make it easy to handle the subset of cases you know how to recover from (and easy to get the underlying errno). Anything else would put application-specific logic into what should be a fairly direct library.

[illustrious-you]

Just report an error the user can easily introspect, and make it easy to handle the subset of cases you know how to recover from (and easy to get the underlying errno ). Anything else would put application-specific logic into what should be a fairly direct library.

Directness is in the eye of the beholder. To someone familiar with IO and all of its myriad failure modes, a flat list of errors is preferred, due to the ease of inspection. The unfamiliar desire classifications, so that the error model fits into their heads. Putting aside the question of what the error model should be, consider that io::ErrorKind has 18 variants, any of which could be returned by an io method. The existing mental model is difficult.

I think @vitalyd identified one of the key motivations for this idea (emphasis added):

it would make it easier for users since they won’t have to individually repeat this mapping exercise, likely getting it wrong in the process.

This is alluded to in @canndrew’s problem description:

io::Error is worse than just opaque though. In some cases it doesn’t even do it’s job as a programming abstraction. For example, the whole point of the standard library networking APIs is to provide a portable abstraction over the networking APIs of the various platforms it runs on. But there are cases where the same error can cause different io::Error s to be returned on different platforms, leading to platform specific code (and platform-specific programmer knowledge) to be needed for even the most simple error handling.

The question, in my mind, is how likely is a user to make these mistakes?

---

I find it easy to imagine scenarios where people want to recovery from UDP “destination unreachable” errors though. Like, whenever you’re using a UDP socket to talk to more than one host but you don’t want to crash if one of the hosts is down. That seems like a very typical use case for UDP actually.

Applying hypotheticals and lived experience works well for novel features. As this idea concerns refining an existing system, might I suggest scanning existing crates for commonly-used patterns? Knowing which errors are handled and which are bubbled should provide some focus to the discussion and address @josh’s concern that the resulting design may be too opinionated. Further, identifying anti-patterns and finding mistakes can provide evidence that the motivation suggested by @vitalyd is correct.

[kornel]

“with fire” is perhaps a bit too dramatic, but in general I agree io::Error could be nicer.

Separate internal ErrorKind is slightly annoying to work with. I do check for NotFound, PermissionDenied and AlreadyExists, as these are very common, and very clear failure modes. It’d be nice to match them in the same match as Ok() rather than having to call err.kind() separately.

Another problem is that io::Error does some weird stuff internally which makes it impossible to Clone. I wanted to cache (memoize) Results of some I/O operations, and I couldn’t cache the actual error.

[josh]

I’d be all for a helper library that makes it easier to classify io::Error via some common patterns; I just don’t want to see io::Error itself (or a replacement) make it more difficult to get at the underlying error.

[CAD97]

Any reorganized IO error hiearchy would surely be Into<io::Error>, as that is the stdlib IO error. I don’t think anyone wants to take away stdlib compatibility just for the sake of ideal error hiearchy. Any functionality on io::Error should still be provided. It’s just about providing a more consumable interface where you don’t have to know all the details to handle some expected failure cases.

[vitalyd]

Applying hypotheticals and lived experience works well for novel features. As this idea concerns refining an existing system, might I suggest scanning existing crates for commonly-used patterns? Knowing which errors are handled and which are bubbled should provide some focus to the discussion and address @josh’s concern that the resulting design may be too opinionated. Further, identifying anti-patterns and finding mistakes can provide evidence that the motivation suggested by @vitalyd is correct.

I also want to point out that “organizing” io::ErrorKind variants has nothing to do with how callers decide to handle them or propagate, which @josh happened to mention above:

Again, you’re not going to be able to guess on behalf of the application which errors it wants to recover from, which it wants to bubble up, and which it wants to abort over. Different applications have different requirements.

The mapping is more likely to put the caller into a “pit of success” than letting them look at the swiss cheese of all variants and trying to figure out which are possible for some operation. I mention swiss cheese as it’s common to use that phrase in the db world - a table with many columns, only some of which are applicable to a given row type, is full of holes - NULL values. You can think of ErrorKind variants that don’t make sense universally as analogous.

I also think the copy example mentioned upthread is a good one, even though it’s not exactly related to io::Error itself. I don’t think we’ve talked about that much, but perhaps that pattern should be discouraged (ie one error to represent multiple individually-fallible errors).

[H2CO3]

Interesting. I also like the idea of being able define nested enums. Possible syntax:

Let’s not hijack this discussion about error handling principles in order to introduce another mysterious and very niche feature into the language. You can already do this with a newtype variant, there’s no need for special syntax.

[withoutboats]

… In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography.

My own annoyances with io::Error run in a very different direction: it feels too verbose to do something like throwing unless it is one specific error kind, which I more commonly want to do. I also recall the constructor for manufactored io::Errors being a bit difficult to use.

[eternaleye]

I deliberately chose it as an error that doesn’t apply to open . The ones listed in open(2) should definitely be handled (well, except those that don’t apply like EEXIST or EFAULT ).

POSIX specifically allows functions to return error codes outside the POSIX-specified ones for platform-specific failure modes:

Implementations may support additional errors not included in this list, may generate errors included in this list under circumstances other than those described here, or may contain extensions or limitations that prevent some errors from occurring.

The ERRORS section on each reference page specifies which error conditions shall be detected by all implementations (“shall fail”) and which may be optionally detected by an implementation (“may fail”).

Your assumptions about what the ERRORS section means are incorrect, and would lead to fragile (broken) programs. It’s entirely legal for open(2) to produce ECONNREFUSED - consider, for example, the /dev/tcp interface that some systems borrow from Plan 9.

The platform interface is dynamically-typed, and Rust can’t change that. Rust pretending the interface is statically typed would result in programs that are incorrect at the boundary.

[canndrew]

POSIX specifically allows functions to return error codes outside the POSIX-specified ones for platform-specific failure modes:

Ugh, well that sucks…

Okay maybe panicking is out of the question entirely, but having the errors structured based on how and how likely you have to handle them would still be very useful.

Alternatively are there any multi-billionaires here who want to fund a project to reinvent computers from the silicon up, making use of 70-odd years of experience?

[eternaleye]

Alternatively are there any multi-billionaires here who want to fund a project to reinvent computers from the silicon up, making use of 70-odd years of experience?

You may be interested in the RISC-V ISA, the CHERI capability ISA extensions, the formally-verified seL4 microkernel, and the Robigalia project.

EDIT: Though I’ll note that, at the inter-process boundary, everything is at best gradually typed - the incoming data cannot be statically known to conform to type invariants, and so the “cast insertion” discipline of gradual typing (which either produces validly typed data or a runtime type error) is the best that can be done.

[dcarosone]

What is unique here about Rust’s hash maps in comparison to Python’s or Javascript’s? I’m not aware of any language that has a hashmap which returns an IO error on lookup.

I bet Perl’s tied hashes can do this

[eternaleye]

I bet Perl’s tied hashes can do this

To my shame, I have done this - I wrote a Perl program that connected to a manga website, and exposed its available series as a tied hash keyed by series name, whose values were tied arrays of issues, whose elements were tied arrays of pages’ image data.

I then “simply” iterated over the resulting data structure to produce CBZ archives for the manga I wanted to read on the bus (without internet)

[notriddle]

Alternatively are there any multi-billionaires here who want to fund a project to reinvent computers from the silicon up, making use of 70-odd years of experience?

There’s the Mill.

[system]

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