RustConf 2017 and the US travel ban

[cramertj]

I believe the “virtue signaling” you’re referring to would be more appropriately termed “solidarity signaling.” Even if it wasn’t possible to move the event out of the US, it’s still important to let non-US Rust folks know that they have our support and that we’re interested in taking steps to make it possible for them to participate.

[Comradephate]

I think you’ve pretty well covered why there’s no obvious path to something akin to “victory”. If the event is moved somewhere else (ignoring the financial burden for a moment) it will create a different subset of the community who cannot attend.

Maybe something similar to how Openstack does it? Alternate US, non-US? Given that there’s sufficient interest and money to do that.

[timClicks]

Oh I completely agree that it is a very complex decision. Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought it was simple or easy, or even that there is a “right” answer

I answered as someone who has been considering flying across the Pacific Ocean but am now less likely to do so.

[comex]

Somewhat tangential, but it would be nice if RustConf 2017 had more options for virtual participation. Apparently the 2016 one wasn’t livestreamed; for a example of what could be aimed for, CCC not only streams all talks but also accepts questions from viewers over IRC.

Watching a stream cannot replace attending a conference in person, but it could still be a next best option for both people affected by the ban and, of course, those who can’t attend for any other reason.

[iopq]

Who is actually affected?

[withoutboats]

That’s what this post is trying to find out!

[ubsan]

CppCon’s youtube videos are amazing, and I’d love for Rustconf’s talks to be done the same way. (completely outside the US/non-US thing; I think it’d be good to move it to Canada)

[nasa42]

I’m planning to make international travel to attend RustConf this year and I’m not affected by the ban (at least not yet). What I do want to know is around what time-frame tickets will be made available for purchase? I think I’ll need them to apply for visa.

[ajd]

I don’t think moving events entirely away from the US is practicable - I fully support the approach of additional support for non-US events, which quite apart from the current immigration crisis will enable a broader range of people to be involved in conferences anyway. Perhaps alternate RustConf host locations in future years as well.

[bcmyers]

I’m an American citizen and not affected by the EO. That said, I think the right thing to do is to move the event to Canada.

[excess]

This seems like a low probability place to find people who are affected. I would guess the intersection of people from Libya, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, or Somalia, who read the Rust internals list (not the general users forum), and were also planning to go the Rust conference is pretty small. I’m happy to be told otherwise.

If you really want to make a statement of solidarity, you should consider hosting a conference in one of those countries. Egypt, Israel, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are also centrally located to all of them.

[iopq]

If nobody is affected, why should Americans be inconvenienced?

[withoutboats]

This message was also cross posted on the general users forum.

To be clear, this ban has already had an impact on people who reside in countries other than those named in the ban. I saw a statement by one of the legal groups assisting people at airports this morning that citizens (or residents, I can’t recall) of 20 countries have already been detained as a result of the ban. I can’t find the link at the moment, but here is an article to the same effect: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/01/30/some-european-citizens-also-banned-from-us-under-trumps-muslim-ban.html

Even if you do not believe you would be barred entry to the United States under this ban, you might reasonably be unwilling to outlay the expenses for travel to the US because you are uncertain that the policy in August will allow you entry. You might also be a resident of the United States whose citizenship status prevents you from leaving the United States (regardless of this ban), in which case moving it outside of the United States would impact you.

[skade]

@excess the ban also includes anyone who got double citizenship. That isn’t unusual for children of refugees, as some of those countries have no concept of giving away citizenship.

In Germany alone, that group exceeds the 100000 people.

“From that country” isn’t quite necessary.

[tupshin]

I am not personally impacted by the ban, but very sympathetic to concerns for those who are.

I will almost certainly attend RustConf if it is in the US, but greatly reduced chance if it is in another country.

That said, I would like to echo those who have made the following two suggestions

1. Double down on efforts to make the event itself more of an international and inclusive one

• live streaming,
• organize simultaneous meetups in various locations with planned interactions between the locations

2. Think more about the future than this year. Plan for the success of the language and the community, which are both building at an incredible rate, and figure out how quickly you can move to a model where there is

• at least one major sponsored rust conference in each of North America, Europe, and Asia every year (with up to 40%, or so, overlapping material)
• ongoing reachout to support smaller rust events in all locations

The travel ban raises issues about inclusiveness and exclusionary approaches. The sad reality is that any location is going to be exclusionary for some, whether due to cost, legality, or security, so the best approach is to go broad.

Of course, that has its own substantial costs and logistical challenges, and 2017 might not be the year to greatly ramp things up. But now is the time to plan for it and to be building a larger network of interested sponsors, etc.

Rust is gonna by yuuuuuge.

[JeffBurdges]

Ask a wider audience, like twitter.

I know or know of a fair number of Iranians who did graduate degrees in the U.S. in mathematics, or more mathematical areas of computer science, but mostly working on the data science side now. So…

If twitter is wider than you want, and if my experience is not selection bias, then maybe ask as github issues on math, data science, etc. related projects.

I agree the longer term solution is to put more energy into building up the events in Europe and elsewhere.

[aturon]

FWIW, we advertised this post widely, including on both discourse forums, reddit, and multiple twitter accounts.

[milesrout]

Even if you do alternate US/non-US (so everyone can, at least in theory, attend half), being able to watch high-resolution streams (youtube streams maybe?) would be really great. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Youtube streams also turn into Youtube videos after the fact.

That also means ensuring people ask questions into the microphone (so people watching can hear them), making sure the screen is clearly visible, making sure that the slides and the stage are each visible when they have to be, etc.

Being able to ask questions remotely during the live event would be awesome too.

[mbrubeck]

[Moderator note: One comment removed. Sorry, but since this topic is already somewhat fraught, I’d like to keep this thread focused on information related to the US travel bans or expanding access to Rust conferences, and not let it expand to pro/con on other aspects of US (or other countries) policies and travel.]

[aturon]

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